“They said, ‘We need a good singer.’ We said, ‘What’s the matter with James Hetfield?’”: NWOBHM survivors Raven on giving insecure Metallica their first national tour, and pioneering the 8-string bass and bass trem

Fronted by Newcastle-born brothers John and Mark Gallagher, Raven were pioneers of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, combining elements of speed, thrash, and traditional heavy music into a sound referred to as athletic metal.

“Certain bands really stand out, like Like Motörhead and Judas Priest, who have a signature sound,” bassist Mark says. “We have that.”

Slayer, Megadeth, Testament, Death Angel, Coroner, and Metallica – who opened for Raven in 1983 – cite the band from north-east England as a direct influence. Raven’s first three albums, Rock Until You Drop (1981), Wiped Out (1982), and All for One (1983) are of particular note.

“It was a very exciting time,” guitarist John says. “It was an era, not a sound. The bands were very different, but they all had passion and energy. We went from playing in the working men’s clubs to putting a single out to being on tour with Ozzy Osbourne. We played with Motörhead and Iron Maiden and filled in for Gary Moore when he pulled out of a tour with Whitesnake. It was an amazing experience.”

Things got tough for later in the ‘80s as the bands they’d influenced passed them by, and the ‘90s weren’t much better. But they never gave up – not even when Mark’s legs were crushed when a wall fell on him on a construction site in 2001.

It took eight years for Raven to rally with 2009’s Walk Through Fire; but since then they’ve dropped three more records: ExtermiNation (2015), Metal City (2020), and All Hell’s Breaking Loose (2023) – which Mark says equal or better their early work.

John agrees: “It’s a curious place to be. We’ve got this long history, but we’re by no means a legacy band. You’re not going to catch us playing our first album in a casino. It’s always about looking toward the future. We’re getting better reviews now than we ever have.”

“The first records were iconic,” Mark says. “Everybody just kept looking to them, and we were kind of chasing that. But we finally decided, ‘We’re going to put out albums that are better than those ones!’ And we did that.”

As you pioneered multiple genres of heavy metal in the ‘70s, did you have an idea that you were doing something innovative?

John Gallagher: “We knew we were pushing the envelope in England. There were a few bands in the New Wave of British Heavy Metal that were not too happy about music. The bands they liked were being disparaged; it was all punk and new wave. The kids went, ‘We’re going to make our own music.’ We took our influences and just revved them up, like crack-crazed ferrets going through your underwear!”

You had Metallica on tour as openers in 1983. It was their first-ever national road trip. What were your thoughts on them?

Mark: “We came out to do our first tour of the States, and our management was the same as Metallica’s – Johnny Z [Zazula]. He said, ‘I’ve got the biggest band from San Fransisco; they’re gonna open for you.’”

John: “When you thought of the bands in San Francisco, it was a long list; Y&T and even Journey. But it was Metallica, and we were like, “Who?’ A week later, this cassette came. I put it in and I’m going, ‘Is this at the right speed?’ It sounded like a Motorhead album at 78 RPM!”

Mark: “We dug it – it was like a more refined Motorhead; real kickass. But when we went out, a lot of places didn’t like Metallica. We played some nutty places on that tour, like Bald Knob, Arkansas, and some really weird gigs. The whole thing was quite an experience.”

Did you have an inclination that Metallica would become superstars?

Mark: “I don’t know. They were a little fractured at the time, saying, ‘We need to get a good singer.’ That was the whole thing. We were like, ‘What’s the matter with James Hetfield? He’s doing pretty good.’ They said, ‘That’s just temporary.’ I think they were looking at John Bush to be the singer.

“But even though they were a young band, they were ahead of what most bands would be at that point, as far as the time they put into it. It definitely had something. It had that hard edge, which was cool.”

What were your typical rigs like back then?

Mark: “Like most bands, we didn’t have much money. We used to take radiograms – a stereo radio and record player with an amp – and rewire them to be used as amps. We’d use a fuzz pedal with it, a Fuzz Face or something. The first real amp I got was a Carlsboro Stingray, an English solid-state amp. I only got it because it looked cool!

“It’s a great amp, and we used that for many years. There was even an echo unit that came with it! I’d use an Ibanez Tube Screamer pedal, an auto-wah, and a chorus pedal. And I got an eight-string pretty early on. I had probably the first Kramer XL-8 from the first album onward.

“I got a custom-built red Explorer bass. I bugged every music tech that worked at the local music stores until one built me a trem. I guess I was one of the first people messing around with that – and to this day, many of my basses have trems.”

John: “I’ve always loved Telecaster guitars; they just have this hard sound. If you couple that up with a decent pickup, you can get this really heavy sound and this real attack. That’s kind of what I’m known for.

“I used Carlsboro amps for many years; they’re on a lot of the early stuff. Then I transitioned to Mesa Boogie, which I liked, but they continuously failed, over and over, to the point where it was just absolutely annoying. So for about seven or eight years I’ve used a Kemper.”

Mark, you had a terrible accident years ago. How did you overcome that?

Mark: “I’m still dealing with it. I’ve got another surgery coming up. It’s been nearly 24 years. We went to a friend’s construction site look at something, and I thought I got jumped by somebody – but a big wall blew over in the wind and hit me in the back and down my legs.

“Like everything else you just think, ‘Oh, I’ll be alright,’ but it dragged on for years. I had to be in a wheelchair and learn to walk again. My right ankle was broken in 17 places, and it’s finally given up, so I’m going to have it replaced. But I’m still rocking!”

How did your accident impact your playing, if at all?

Mark: “I’m just kind of weird, you know? Like two years ago, I broke my finger doing something stupid that I can’t remember. My finger is kind of bent but it doesn’t really affect my playing. It’s weird. With this band, we’ve always had stuff come against us, but we keep focused on what we’re trying to do and step over it. It was the same thing with the accident.”

John: “His story is amazingly inspirational. Whatever troubles are put in our way, you just frame it against that, and it ain’t that bad! We can always make it happen.”

Mark: “One quack, a physician’s assistant, said, ‘We’re probably going to have to take your leg.’ I said, ‘I need the leg – that’s not going to work out.’ It’s just a mindset of saying, ‘Whatever I gotta do to make this right, that’s what I’ll do.’ It’s been a lot of pain and stuff, but we’re still able to do shows and kick ass. We kick ass more than a lot of these young bands!”

Is that what you’re most proud of?

Mark: “Yeah, that we’re still here and still doing. I guess that would be the most important factor. We’re the poster children for stubborn bastards. I like the fact that we don’t sound like anybody else; you put us on and we stick out.”

John: “There’s a factor of improvisation and danger in what we do. It’s never played exactly the same way twice. I think all of us are really good at our instruments.”

Mark: “Yeah… we actually play live, without any tapes or background singers. Like, who’s that band, Green Day? They’re a punk band with like four guitar players! It’s like, ‘What the hell’s going on?’ It’s like Elton John said, ‘If you get up there, and you’re miming to your songs, you should be shot.’”

John: “I think we had a large demonstration of that the other night at Grammys – which I studiously avoided!”

Does it bother you that heavy metal is still unrepresented at award shows?

John: “It wasn’t represented at all when we were kids. It’s very much an underground thing. In some ways that suits all of us. We’re all underdogs in some way. It gives us something to kick back against.”

Mark: “It’s like a brotherhood. You don’t see these pop artists playing clubs. Some record company that wants to write some money off will put them in a video or whatever, then maybe they’ll open for some big act. But other than that, they’re not really working hard.”

John: “If you’re in a band, there’s gotta be these horrible, old-fashioned things like showmanship, danger, and excitement. But now it’s going out and seeing a show where someone’s got a video screen with the same programming as the band you saw last week, with the same backing tape nonsense going on. You go: ‘Oh wow, look how much money they spent!’

“Money does not replace talent. It never will. You could put us up with a couple of tin boxes and we’d entertain an audience. It wouldn’t be our preferred method of communicating, but yeah, it could be done!”

How do you view Raven’s impact, given that it spans multiple genres of heavy metal over 50 years?

John: “It’s gratifying. Over the last 10 years, whenever we play festivals or tour around the world, bands come up to us and say, ‘Thank you. You guys were a great influence on us.’ They’re very nice about it. It’s nice to get a pat on the back being ancient old bastards like we are!”

• Raven’s 50th anniversary EP Can’t Take Away The Fire is out now.

Andrew Daly is an iced-coffee-addicted, oddball Telecaster-playing, alfredo pasta-loving journalist from Long Island, NY, who, in addition to being a contributing writer for Guitar World, scribes for Bass Player, Guitar Player, Guitarist, and Music Radar. Andrew has interviewed favorites like Ace Frehley, Johnny Marr, Vito Bratta, Bruce Kulick, Joe Perry, Brad Whitford, Tom Morello, Rich Robinson, and Paul Stanley, while his all-time favorite (rhythm player), Keith Richards, continues to elude him.